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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>characters: embedded · wg-async-foundations · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/index.html">wg-async-foundations</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html">characters: embedded</a></h3>

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<a name="229545518"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229545518" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229545518">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>and some into applications</p>



<a name="229545885"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229545885" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229545885">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>There's more where this came from. I had a bit of problem shoehorning it into the old template. I think the revised structure is quite a bit clearer.</p>



<a name="229545992"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229545992" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229545992">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>let me populate and I will push as a separate commit, I'm curious to see if you like it</p>



<a name="229547978"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229547978" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229547978">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="392749">@Daniel Egger</span> so check this out:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://nikomatsakis.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision/characters/grace.html#variant-b-embedded">Grace does embedded</a></li>
<li><a href="https://nikomatsakis.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision/applications/embedded.html">Embedded as an application area</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="229547992"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229547992" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229547992">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm wondering if we want a backlink from Embedded to Grace</p>



<a name="229548100"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548100" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548100">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Really I should put some of that Grace text into "Examples" or something</p>



<a name="229548283"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548283" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548283">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sweet.</p>



<a name="229548481"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548481" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548481">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>Grace is a split personality now? <span aria-label="sweat smile" class="emoji emoji-1f605" role="img" title="sweat smile">:sweat_smile:</span></p>



<a name="229548665"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548665" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548665">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah why not :)</p>



<a name="229548672"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548672" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548672">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have the same for Alan</p>



<a name="229548734"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548734" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548734">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://nikomatsakis.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision/characters/alan.html#variant-a-dynamic-languages">Variant A</a>, dynamic languages</li>
<li><a href="https://nikomatsakis.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision/characters/alan.html#variant-b-java">Variant B</a>, java</li>
</ul>



<a name="229548780"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548780" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548780">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>the main thing is that the "what does Alan want most" is kind of the same in both cases</p>



<a name="229548799"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548799" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548799">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>and also the "what expectations does alan bring"</p>



<a name="229548807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548807">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the same holds for Grace here</p>



<a name="229548837"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548837" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548837">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>at least at some level of detail :)</p>



<a name="229548974"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548974" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548974">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually I'm missing a bit about what Grace expects-- I think she's also accustomed to tooling like gdb, perf, or whatever, and would probably like to be able to continue using those tools</p>



<a name="229548989"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229548989" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229548989">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>(does that sound right?)</p>



<a name="229549192"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549192" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549192">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>pushed a sentence to that effect</p>



<a name="229549262"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549262" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549262">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think i'll merge those commits into my main PR</p>



<a name="229549366"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549366" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549366">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Not sure, I'm definitely not a debugger guy. I'm rather happy that we can do a lot of cool things without having to use those antiquated tools.</p>



<a name="229549637"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549637" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549637">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe it's going a bit far</p>



<a name="229549660"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549660" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549660">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Grace is accustomed to various bits of low-level tooling, such as gdb or perf. She would like to be able to use those tools, though she'd be happy to have access to better alternatives if they were available. She's ok using cargo instead of make, for example.</li>
</ul>



<a name="229549695"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549695" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549695">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe "She would ilke to be able to" is too stron</p>



<a name="229549721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549721">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like I am happy when tools like perf work "reasonably"</p>



<a name="229549729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549729">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I want improved versions</p>



<a name="229549737"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549737" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549737">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe I'm just writing about me :)</p>



<a name="229549838"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229549838" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229549838">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, the point is, you can use those tools if you want to (though gdb is a bit iffy with Rust code).</p>



<a name="229550037"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550037" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550037">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Grace is accustomed to various bits of low-level tooling, such as gdb or perf. It's nice if Rust works reasonably well with those tools, but she'd be happy to have access to better alternatives if they were available. She's happy using <code>cargo</code> instead of <code>make</code>, for example.</li>
</ul>



<a name="229550107"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550107" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550107">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Nice.</p>



<a name="229550148"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550148" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550148">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>i suspect everyone is happy if their existing workflows work, even if they want better ones, just so they can choose when to learn</p>



<a name="229550193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550193">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. I know when I got a windows PC I knew that I ought to learn powershell but I was happy I could just use bash to start :)</p>



<a name="229550229"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550229" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550229">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>(never did learn powershell, but that's neither here nor there)</p>



<a name="229550282"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550282" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550282">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure how far we want to go into the detail wrt the better tooling we have. Some of it is mindboggling and very eye opening.</p>



<a name="229550358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550358">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>say more!</p>



<a name="229550368"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550368" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550368">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>i'm not sure <em>I</em> know what you're talking about</p>



<a name="229550386"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550386" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550386">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>Especially when coming from Embedded C/C++ where a lot of things are "special" (and not in a good way) Rust is a true eye opener.</p>



<a name="229550433"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550433" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550433">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess what I mean is, are there special things for embedded you're talking about?</p>



<a name="229550483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550483">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://probe.rs/">https://probe.rs/</a></p>



<a name="229550504"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550504" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550504">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>(broke this out into a separate topic)</p>



<a name="229550521"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550521" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550521">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>O_O woah!</p>



<a name="229550598"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550598" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550598">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I totally think the applications page should have things like this</p>



<a name="229550612"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550612" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550612">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>or a link to where to find things like this</p>



<a name="229550766"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229550766" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229550766">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>And there're a ton of mind-boggling tools building on <a href="http://probe.rs">probe.rs</a>: cargo-flash, cargo-embed, probe-run...</p>



<a name="229551146"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229551146" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229551146">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>(cc <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span>, this may be interesting to check out)</p>



<a name="229551193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229551193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229551193">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>We're also using tools like svd2rust to generate Rust abstractions over MMIO register descriptions.</p>



<a name="229551196"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229551196" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229551196">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>we've been talking a bit about what it would look like to have advanced tooling for debugging and profiling rust applications, esp. (but not limited to) networked services</p>



<a name="229551321"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229551321" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229551321">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is the first time i've heard anyone be positive about the experience of a debugger and Rust :)</p>



<a name="229551363"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229551363" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229551363">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe just the magic of embedded setting a low bar</p>



<a name="229551464"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229551464" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229551464">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>The quality of those files provided by the vendors varies quite a bit but at least you can eliminate some of the studying of 2000page manuals quite a bit to figure out which bits to set to achieve something.</p>



<a name="229551986"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229551986" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229551986">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Then we have frameworks like RTIC <a href="https://rtic.rs/0.5/book/en/">https://rtic.rs/0.5/book/en/</a> which provides a top shelf concurrency framework to build safe applications with guaranteed hard realtime capabilities, most of which verified and guaranteed at compile time by the Rust compiler.</p>



<a name="229552227"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229552227" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229552227">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>We may not have much in Rust but what we have is nothing short of a game changer in the industry. ;)</p>



<a name="229552529"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229552529" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229552529">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Due to the great FFI capabilities there's also always the possibility to continue using C/C++ code or move to Rust piecemealwise.</p>



<a name="229552548"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229552548" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229552548">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>(also cc <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224941">@Carl Lerche</span>, for the same reason)</p>



<a name="229552654"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229552654" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229552654">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>There're a lot of efforts (outside of the WG realm) which try to leverage that.</p>



<a name="229552917"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229552917" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229552917">(Mar 09 2021 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="392749">Daniel Egger</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded/near/229551986">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Then we have frameworks like RTIC <a href="https://rtic.rs/0.5/book/en/">https://rtic.rs/0.5/book/en/</a> which provides a top shelf concurrency framework to build safe applications with guaranteed hard realtime capabilities, most of which verified and guaranteed at compile time by the Rust compiler.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>another thing I had not seen</p>



<a name="229553241"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229553241" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229553241">(Mar 09 2021 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/tylerwhall/zephyr-rust">https://github.com/tylerwhall/zephyr-rust</a>, <a href="https://mynewt.apache.org/latest/tutorials/other/rust.html">https://mynewt.apache.org/latest/tutorials/other/rust.html</a> and <a href="https://github.com/hashmismatch/freertos.rs">https://github.com/hashmismatch/freertos.rs</a> are some efforts to integrate embedded OS with Rust.</p>



<a name="229553618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229553618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229553618">(Mar 09 2021 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, our marketing is not great and our interfacing to the rest of the Rust teams/WGs wasn't particularly effective either. <span aria-label="shrug" class="emoji emoji-1f937" role="img" title="shrug">:shrug:</span>🏻‍♂️</p>



<a name="229555816"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229555816" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229555816">(Mar 09 2021 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we can improve this around async at least!</p>



<a name="229556381"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters%3A%20embedded/near/229556381" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.3A.20embedded.html#229556381">(Mar 09 2021 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>That would be killer.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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